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woobs
01-10-2012, 10:42 AM
I know, I know...havn`t even got my 18 wet yet and I`m lookin for a 22....Here`s the deal, my 4 year restoration of my woodie is fast coming to completion and my current Donzi is pretty much water ready.

While chatting with my restorer I told him about my 18C and we thought a Donzi would be a good next project. However, I already have a Classic 18 and my woodie is also an 18. We are thinking along the lines of a creating a wood deck 22 (somthing bigger than the 18 and no larger than a 24)...like a modern `gentlemans racer`or a Kavalk type ride.

So... not in any kind of a rush, as this is a long term project, but would like to put out some feelers if anyone sees or knows of a suitable 22 hull at a dirt cheap price. power not important and better if missing. We will consider other hulls that will lend themselves to this type of project.

If you come across one let me know.
Thanks,
Sean

silverghost
01-10-2012, 12:23 PM
I think the retro gentleman's racer conversion project is a super idea. I am involved with a similar project on a Donzi 18 hull. The "Benchseat 18 Project" posted here.
I am keeping the deck all fiberglass however.
Forum user rustnrot on both Donzi web forums & his buddy have been involved in several of these retro-stye single cockpit gentleman's racer projects in the past with all wood mahogany decks & cauked seams on an old fiberglass Donzi hull.
You may want to talk with him ?

I think this idea combines the best of both worlds ~~Old retro look gentleman's racer mahogany deck with new leak & worry free fiberglass hull.
There is a boatbuilder in NJ not very far from my home building these retro-style new boats from scratch. Mahogany/Maple & Teak decks on a new fiberglass hull with modern engine power & drive systems.
They are using an all fiberglass hull, modern engine power & drives, with a wood planked deck directly placed on a fiberglass deck sub-structure.

Cherubini 24 & 20
Check-out~
www.cherubiniyachts.com/20.html

I am very familar with the Kavalk retro boats built in Canada.
Check-out Kavalk ~

www.kazulinboats.com

Especially the small aft cockpit Gentleman's racer styles they have been building.
They sure have that mahogany deck retro "WoW Factor" I like so much also!

There has been an old project
Donzi 22 "classic" project hull sitting in Maryland that has been up for sale for some time now. The hull is basically stripped of power~~~The fiberglass deck & engine hatch is now off the boat ~~~but come with the project boat.
Stringer wood repair work has been started.
The price seems just about right for this project hull~~~for what it actually is.
This Donzi 22 hull would be geat for what you are looking for I believe.
It's already pulled-apart.
The hull is sound.
The current owner started this project~~~then abandoned the entire idea.
Search for the Donzi 22 project hull For Sale in Md listing on Donzi.net .
I will try to find that For Sale web link for you.

If you ever want to talk about fiberglass retro gentleman's racer projects~~~Give me a call sometime.
215 947 4676

This sounds like a great project idea.
Good Luck~~~
Brad

Lenny
01-10-2012, 05:03 PM
Be sure to get the deck or at least a 6" wide perimeter cut out of it. This will save you a MOUNTAIN of work and will give you the sheer lines to work from in order to keep the hull in the right shape.

woobs
01-10-2012, 06:03 PM
Hey Brad, those Cherebini boats look very nice... My buds dad has a Kavalk and I drool every time I see it!

I have read all the threads on your 18 Benchseat restoration...I only hope I can do that kind of justice to my planned resto. I have found pics (which I have borrowed) on a wood deck 16C that looked cool. small, but cool!
I'd really be be stoked if you could find info on that 22 in Md....sounds like it fits the bill and close enough I could pick it up myself!

Lenny good tip! I'll be asking for many more from the collective here.

Cheers,
S.
7089

MadPoodle
01-10-2012, 10:00 PM
Sean, that's rustnrots boat... Even cooler in person. I think he sold it a few years ago @ Mount Dora...

woobs
01-10-2012, 11:52 PM
She is a beauty.....

e-mailed a guy named Greg from Maryland tonight with a hull...dialogue has started.
...I fear my Greavette my need a new custodian.

silverghost
01-11-2012, 01:07 AM
Woobs~
I'm glad you made contact with the Maryland Donzi 22 project owner.
This hull has been For Sale for some time now~
Perhapps the project's owner will now be open to realistic offers ?
Keep us updated~

There is an 23 foot Elite Craft Riviera that has been For Sale in the Point Pleasent NJ area for a very long time.
The asking price in October was $ 10. K
Elite Craft was built as a fiberglass retro style boat with a design like the famous 1950s Chris~Craft Capri woodie.
Elite Craft had a "secret tecnique" to wood grain their gellcoat to make it look just like varnished mahogany planking.
These boats were built in the 1980s.
The Point Pleasent Nj boat is the later production style deep V style stern.
Earlier hulls had a flat stern bottom.
This boat has a Fresh Water Cooled (Heat Exchanger) inboard 350 Chevy V-Drive.
They used 351 Ford on their earlier production boats.
This is a very late production Elite Craft.
My buddy toyed with the idea of buying this boat.
We inspected it this October .
The interior is now shot~~~
The faux grained deck is now faded~~~
But~~~
The hull sides & transom look great.
The owner abused this boat by letting it sit uncovered outside for decades.

I almost bought an Elite Craft Riviera from a retired 1970s Phila. Flyers Pro Hockey Player friend who has a waterfront summer vacation home in Ocean City Nj in the 1990s.
I have always been sorry I did not buy that boat at that time.
It is now in use as a high-end yacht tender.

I first saw an Elite Craft at the old Philly Deleware River Penn's Landing in-water boatshow .
I then fell in love with these retro style boats.
I still have the original Elite Craft sales packet I picked-up at this 1980s show..

Vintage Era Watercraft,~~~The builder of Elite Craft, sadly went under, & out of business, when I believe one of their design engineers rolled a boat completely over while testing a boat at high speed in a tight turn.
Sadly he was killed~~~~
Then the Lawyers got involved in a big lawsuit.
I cannot imagine what he actually did to roll one of these boats? When I drove the retired Phila Flyers Player's Ocean City NJ Elite Craft
Riviera it seemed to be fairly stable at speed.

Check-out the Elite Craft Owner's Club website for more info on these great all fiberglass retro style boats.


www.elitecraftowners.com/

roadtripse
01-11-2012, 09:29 AM
The Maryland 22 is a blackhawk hull, so unless you want to run a blackhawk rig...

Lots of history with this boat, I've touched it. Before Greg bought it and started tearing into it.

If you get serious about it, let me know, and I'll give you the details of what I know.

woobs
01-11-2012, 10:15 AM
PM sent...
I'd love to hear all about this hull.

silverghost
01-11-2012, 11:22 AM
Since this Maryland 22 project hull, I told woobs about, is indeed a Blackhawk hull with special built-in bottom rocker & a raised X-dimension designed to work with the short lived high performance Merc. Blackhawk surface running outdrive~~~

If woobs would now replace the Blackhawk outdrive with a standard Merc. Bravo outdrive~~~
How would this 22 rocker hull handle & plane with this Bravo swap ?
Would it work very well ?
Would woobs need to alter this project hull's bottom & remove some of the built-in rocker & lower the current Blackhawk's X-dimension to run a Bravo outdrive ?
Or~
Would he just be stuck with this hull's current configuration and forced to run a rare blackhawk outdrive on this specially designed Blackhawk hull ?

Just Curious ~~~

I only have about an hour of seat time in a Blackhawk . I drove one when they first appeared ~~~
What a thrill !
It's a super performing hull & drive combination.
But~
I must strongly point out~
It is NOT for everyone~~~especially new inexperienced drivers.

woobs
01-11-2012, 12:21 PM
Unlike some, my aim is not WOT GPS title holder... I had my racing thrills over fifteen years driving road race (touring) cars. My goal is to build a good performing, sporty, stable platform with the charm and luxury an old boy like me desires. Were still not talking slow here....I'm not dead yet.

So my plan for a classic look 22 - 24 hull (with some room) would be to power with a factory OE 6.2 MPI or 496 MAG (or MAG HO) with a Bravo 3 drive somewhere in the 320 - 375 (425) HP range. Replace the decks with a nice sleek, sporty mahogony and fill the cockpit with really comfey sport seats and all the bells & whistles you would find on a new Cobalt A25. If it would run in the sixties and deal with rough water (not necessarily at the same time..lol) I'd be happy.

Do you think the rockered chine of the BH 22 C can pull this type duty?

My 18C might have fit the bill, but if I'm building my "dream boat" ...well, I'm a big guy and over the long haul would like to sit in my boat. The 18 will work fine for a few years while this project evolves.

I have only just started the search for this project and I'm not set on anything at this point. I am in no rush at all. However I have learned the time to buy some things is when you see them.

Comments ?

silverghost
01-11-2012, 01:03 PM
Woobs~

Donzi 16 & 18 project boats pop-up on the market all the time.
There are many choices here~

But~~~
You do not see very many Donzi 22 project boats popping-up at all.
Especially in this price range.

If you would not be using that special Stainless Steel Blackhawk windshield assembly that comes with this Maryland project.
Just go and sell it for $1500.-$2000. on the Donzi websites, or eBay .

Also~~~Does that nice trailer pictured in his photo advert also come with this project 22 hull ?

Then what is this project 22 hull really going to cost you ?
Think about it ?

woobs
01-11-2012, 02:02 PM
Woobs~
Then what is this project 22 hull really going to cost you ?
Think about it ?

Brad, C'mon man, don't be a "wet blanket"! You only go around once....a new Cobalt 25A is around $ 90,000.00 so, I'm sure it's less than that. I will most likely sell my woodie and my 18 C when the time comes.

As a long term project you don't write one big cheque...No way I'd get that past the wife. I prefer to think of it as "stepped investment". (that keeps her guessing). When I liquidate the current fleet the additional investment required is reasonable over time....and I don't smoke, drink heavily or chase women.

If I didn't operate like this I never would have raced for fifteen years, restored a dozen Porsches, built/collected custom guitars or had much fun at all :) . The down side is...everything I do seems to be a project!

BTW: don't know what comes with the 22bh at the moment..still waiting to hear.

silverghost
01-11-2012, 02:27 PM
Woobs~
No No No~~~
You mis-understood my point~

I was actually trying to urge you on to actually BUY the Maryland project 22 hull.

I would really like to see you actually build you "Dream Boat " .

Go-For-It !

BUIZILLA
01-11-2012, 03:50 PM
Coparts in Miami had a dark blue 22 on the ground

it was talked about here, or somewhere, a couple months back

Lenny
01-11-2012, 05:14 PM
is actually my 18LE deck is it not :D ?:Confus1:

MadPoodle
01-11-2012, 05:30 PM
is actually my 18LE deck is it not :D ?:Confus1:


SHHHHHH, I'm hunting wabbits.....

Lenny
01-12-2012, 02:17 AM
Woobs, if anything and this "project" , I would be buying a 22 STOCK hull and PUTTING a BH on it and about 700 hp. Not the other way around.

IMO

osur866
01-12-2012, 05:51 AM
Woobs, if anything and this "project" , I would be buying a 22 STOCK hull and PUTTING a BH on it and about 700 hp. Not the other way around.

IMO
Thats cuz you like speed Lenny! Woobs sounds like a cool project.

silverghost
01-12-2012, 01:41 PM
Woobs, if anything and this "project" , I would be buying a 22 STOCK hull and PUTTING a BH on it and about 700 hp. Not the other way around.

IMO

Lenny~
Do you not like the Donzi Blackhawk hulls ?
Do you find that the Blackhawk outdrives work better with the stock , non rocker, Donzi hulls ?
I know you know far more about Blackhawk drive & hull combinations than I do~~~.
The Blackhawk hull are fairly rare as few were built.
Do they have poor handling issues with the built-in rocker ?

Just wondering why you like this specific stock "classic" hull combination better for Woobs proposed retro-style Donzi 22 build-up project ?

woobs
01-12-2012, 03:16 PM
:popp:

Lenny
01-12-2012, 11:19 PM
Lenny~
Do you not like the Donzi Blackhawk hulls ?


I am staying out of this one BUT Stock Classic 22 hulls really like the BH drive. BH drives need natural bow lift to work. The BH hull gives it to you in two forms. Stock entry, different aft 8'. I find the "dance" between the two running surfaces is "interesting" at times. Just my opinion. In a slow( er ) running piece of eye candy, with most probably a heavier forward section than stock BH form, I think this will complicate things further.

I do know ( from experience ) that the 22 Classic hull ( non BH ) LOVES THE BH drive given props and north of 500 ponies.

Just seems a better fit. ( to me )

Brad, I am polarized on the BH and non BH 22's. It is an owners perspective which is better and since I own neither, I will shut the $uck up.. :)

woobs
01-13-2012, 10:06 AM
No, no..now is no time to be quiet!

I am not hooked on a BH hull....just an affordable/available hull that will do the job.
I`m also not in a hurry as we just came up with this project concept.

It would be a sad thing to make a deal on this BH just because it is a 22, and then put 3-4 years of project work (and $$$) along our planned concept, and then find out that the thing will not handle, and rides like a 3 wheeled wagon....with flatspots on the three remaining wheels.

You're right, I want to build some eye candy with moderate performance but if she won't work at all then what's the point? As has been mentioned , 22 project hulls don`t seem to come up all that often...If a standard 22 hull were available it might be easier, but I just want to make an informed decision to jump on it now or bail and wait.

All opinions & points of view are welcome....don`t be shy. :big:
That`s what forums are all about!

New thread (for discussion) started http://www.donzi.org/forum/showthread.php/2651-Classic-Project
in classic Donzi discussion section. We can use this thread for finding a hull.

silverghost
01-13-2012, 06:29 PM
Woobs~
Another project hull that you might wish to consider for your Retro Gentleman's Racer Speedster is the Chris ~Craft Lancer 23' .
There are several size length C~C Lancer hulls.
These boats came in straight Inboard, Inboard V-Drive, & Inboard/Outdtive power configurations.
There is a spectacular retro Mahogany deck & transom Gentleman's Racer/Speedster conversion project that was posted several years back on that other Donzi website.
The fellow who did this build-up did a spectacular conversion job.
I believe the C~C Lancer was possibly designed by Jim Wynne who also designed for Donzi .
They are very slick fast early Deep V designs.
Chris~Craft built very large numbers of these various Lancer models .
Often there are very cheap project Lancer hulls to be found everywhere .
At one time there were at leat a half dozen of these boats in, and around the Ocean City NJ & Atlantic City NJ area.

My Father & I always liked the way a Chris~Craft Lancer would plane & ride in rough water at high speeds.

In the last few years, or so, these boats have developed a cult following among early fiberglass boat restorers & collectors today because of their style & great fast ride quality.

Dad & I should never have sold that boat !

Glashole
01-23-2012, 05:14 PM
back onto the blackhawk deal

byron's 22 works awesome with a std hull and a blackhawk drive with plenty of power
would think however if someone put the same power into an actual blackhawk hull it would go faster than the std 22

but it definitely wouldn't handle as easily

and why hasn't anyone done an arneson on one yet????

Lenny
01-23-2012, 07:42 PM
back onto the blackhawk deal
and why hasn't anyone done an arneson on one yet????

great question, natural bow lift available. the $15K conversion might be the $hitty part of the experiment. Kenny does have one on his stock hulled 22,... and about 1000 ponies :) .

woobs
01-24-2012, 09:25 AM
I think all things considered, I'm going to put this 22 project on "hold" while I finish my 72 Greavette (woody) for the spring and then give my new found 18C 2+3 some love. I don't want to get over extended for time or money while starting a new business.

OFFSHORE GINGER
01-24-2012, 10:46 AM
Sean , actually that is a very wise decision considering i reached that same conclusion on my end which leads me to try, and finish up my little woody project also ....considering i will start building a steam box possibly this week or next along with looking for a another project boat in the near future (spring ) something that needs a total deck off restoration either a Sea Ray SRX Pachanga 69 /70 , Sutphen , Donzi , or Cig , something in the 16 to 21 foot range with a little lower $ price tag if you know what i mean , and to tell you the truth i was seriously thinking about calling that guy with that 16 Donzi barn find that claims he has a rare boat or center console , and decking it over ...vacuum baggig a new custom deck along with shorting the cockpit having a bench seat instead . O..............Well..............

woobs
01-24-2012, 02:15 PM
That's why they call them "dreams"...